This was originally written in 2008. Little has changed since our Poseur President has entered the White House.
Well here we are boys ‘n girls, coming full circle to where we were in August 9th when I first queried about Obama’s dual citizenship; fully acknowledged on his own website.
My question, a the time was, “can a person with dual citizenship run for the office of POTUS?” The question arose because of post on the Rocky Mountain News website, that briefly alluded to Obama’s dual citizenship. At the time I was not familiar with the relevant part of the Constitution that reads:
Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States:
“No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”
The numerous lawsuits (at least 8 in various states) that have been filed challenging Obama’s eligibility to run and serve as President have changed that. It wasn’t until tonight, however, that the importance of my August question became clear. Thanks to Leo Donofrio, for finally putting all of the pieces in place . It finally makes sense.
Mr. Donofrio, who, on Monday, November 17 he will renew his application for an Emergency Stay of the ’08 election in the Supreme Court, refers to the same Rocky Mountain News piece, as does FactCheck.Org in its attempt to “clarify Obama’s citizenship. His blog, Natural Born Citizen, which is tracking his legal moves in this critical Constitutional case said this evening:
Obama admits he was a British Citizen at birth and therefore, just like the Framers, he was not a “natural born citizen” of the United States
The Framers distinguished between”natural born Citizens” and all other “Citizens”. And that’s why it’s important to note the 14th Amendment only confers the title of “Citizen”, not “natural born Citizen”. The Framers were Citizens, but they weren’t natural born Citizens. They put the stigma of not being natural born Citizens on themselves by law.
[…]
The Framers were not natural born citizens because, “at birth” they were all British citizens. That’s why they included a grandfather clause in Article 2, Section 1. The Framers wanted to make themselves eligible to be President, but they didn’t want future generations to be Governed by a Commander In Chief who had split loyalty to another Country. They recognized that they were NOT “Natural Born Citizens”, because “at birth” they were subject to the British Crown as was Barack Obama.
The Framers were not comfortable with the possibility of future generations of Presidents being born under the jurisdiction of Foreign Powers. The Framers declared themselves not eligible to be President as “Natural Born Citizens” so they wrote the grandfather clause in for a limited exception.
Nobody alive today can claim eligibility to be President under the grandfather clause since nobody alive today was a citizen of the US at the time the Constitution was adopted.
Note, Article 2, Section 1 of our Constitution does not allow for dual citizenship, in fact, the Framers of our Constitution went out of their way to make sure that no person serving as President of these United States would have to suffer conflicting loyalties to more than one country. It has already been suggested that Barack has demonstrated divided loyalties because of his association with Raila Odinga in Kenya.
Why this is important; according to Fact Check, Obama was both a British Citizen and U.S. citizen, thereby making him ineligible to be POTUS. Quoting directly from the site:
When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.’s children:
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.
In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.
Here’s the bottom line, regardless what the vault copy of Obama’s birth certificate reads, when he was born he was both a British Citizen and U.S. citizen.
He does not meet the requirement of having been born a natural born citizen of this country and it was always in plain sight!
“Take action here: http://peoplespassions.org/index.html
It’s EASY. Just click and send emails to Reps. then send letters/emails to Electors asking them to defend the U.S. Constitution and demand Obama provide birth certificate or step down from Presidency. Every email and letter counts! Please help.”
-Eagle1
Thanks, I’ll do exactly that, except that I’m not going to ASK Reps who have sworn an oath to defend the Constitution for anything. That might be insulting to them 🙂 Or should be..
If there is no Constitutional crisis, then there WILL be a crisis of authority. I refuse to recognise him as CIC, any law he signs, any constituency he picks, etc, and they can bloody well sort it out retroactively regardless of how herculean that task will be in the future.
The Constitution isn’t a guidline. Once suspended, NO laws are legitimate.
Thanks or a great article, you answered my questions exactly.
[…] Obama admits Dual Citizenship I’ve run out of patience for people who aggressively ignore facts in evidence and obviously make up others. Ok Tivodan, so have I. So here is a fresh new angle, I would love to hear your views on its relevance. Or anyone else who wishes to actually discus this angle. Obama admits that he was born with Dual Citizenship The Framers were not natural born citizens because, at birth they were all British citizens. Thats why they included a grandfather clause in Article 2, Section 1. The Framers wanted to make themselves eligible to be President, but they didnt want future generations to be Governed by a Commander In Chief who had split loyalty to another Country. They recognized that they were NOT Natural Born Citizens, because at birth they were subject to the British Crown as was Barack Obama. http://texasdarlin.files.wordpress.c…rsfc092508.jpg PROOF – OBAMA’S ACKNOWLEDGED DUAL CITIZENSHIP MEANS NEVER ELIGIBLE TO BE POTUS – INFO ALWAYS I… […]
[…] Obama’s case, who acknowledges on his website that he had dual citizenship at birth, we find the evidence in plain sight but too late discern its meaning. President Chester A. […]
As some have said, ‘Get over it.’
Missed point or 2… I’m no lawyer, but I can read the constitution and I don’t think it’s possible to overturn a national election and name the other party the successor. The Constitution has procedure in place that governs -including a President-Elect and failure to qualify. The VP or VP-Elect is next for the position. If not VP or VP-Elect for some reason, it goes next to House of Reps. D’yall recall the Nixon admin? Agnew gone & then Nixon resigned? Remember House Speaker Gerald Ford who finished Nixon’s term?
Re: birth certificate. I don’t know anything for certain here either, but it’s my understanding that the states decide for themselves what ‘form’ to use; that most still call it a ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ and that a ‘Birth Certificate’ is issued subsequently to verify the original ‘Certificate of Live Birth.’ Also, Hawaii was a state when Obama was born; assuming he was born in Hawaii, then I believe that makes him a ‘natural born’ citizen, regardless of whether either of his parents were U.S. citizens, ‘natural born’ or naturalized. Hello, why d’ya think there is so much border-crossing to give birth here to qualify a child for US benefits availability?
I do know Obama’s qualification(s) can be challenged in Congress and may be, but I doubt it will come to anything. I’ll also bet the Supreme Court will not address it either; State District Court already did satisfactorily.
Most of the comments here positively smack of ‘sore loser’ and not much else. How nasty and small and frivolous.
Get a Brain! You’re supporting a demo-BERG Hillary supporter who once called on World Leaders to Oust BUSH and CHENEY over 9/11!!
rinf.com/columnists/news/philip-berg-
seeking-the-truth-of-911
And was order to go to an Ethics class! We ARE the party of the Stupid!
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=
1122023117263
The muslims know more about your Privacy Laws than YOU do!
http://www.rbs2.com/privacy.htm
You show before the world contempt for American Laws, American Officials, American Verdicts in American Courts! Who else is STUPID enough to support a Democrat (BERG) who called on World Leaders to arrest BUSH for 9/11!!!
We ARE the Party of the Stupid!
http://www.economist.com/world/
unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id
=12599247
A Republican Governor sealed the thing to prevent the state from being SUED! Understand Privacy LAWS!
http://www.rbs2.com/privacy.htm
You’re so dumb let me put it this way. TRY and find McCain’s detailed medical records (you won’t. He allowed selected reporters to view them for 3 hours only). Why isn’t his medical online? Because of Privacy Laws!!! Try and find McCain’s detailed high school records, Academy Records, or anything else you think Obama should reveal!
We are the butt of jokes around Europe. Those of us, whose work takes them to Europe is tired of it! Republicans get a CLUE!
[…] Story Here […]
LoverLaw:
Either you are obtuse, or you think I am. Might I suggest you read and study your evidence (?) … proof(?).
# Updated 10/31: More – Reports that Obama’s COLB is Authentic (10/31: Updated to reflect that Hawaii Dept. of Health has issued statement that state officials have personally examined Obama’s original birth certificate and “there’s no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.”
Hmmm, what does and doesn’t this press release say?
Well, for starters, the officials have given us the equivalent of a “trust me” statement . . . you can’t see the document in question, but “trust us” Obama was born in Hawaii! Did they release any other pertinent information . . . like time, date, father’s name, hospital, doctor? No, in fact the vault copy of BHO’s birth certificate has been SEALED BY THE STATE OF HAWAII.
One would think we were talking about a national secret . . . oh, that’s right, we are.
One other point, Berg’s case always faced challanges on standing. Donofrio’s suit does not and that’s why we’ve got the Supremes interested.
Stay tuned!
Why are you the last to know…? Study this.
http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/
Why the American conservative republicans allowed the ignorant to take charge of the party is beyond me. We are Idiots on the world stage. READ and STUDY! Keep up with the law, will you PLEASE!
Jane:
I have responded to this on numerous occasions.
This fight, long ago, stopped being about HRC. This is about adhering to the Constitution and acknowledging that putting any single man ahead of this most “scared of documents” as pertains to our Democracy cannot be allowed.
Yes, this is a country in turmoil, but we cannot allow the very fabric that binds us to be torn asunder because of the personal likes or desires of BHO and his supporters. If Obama is an imposter allowed to become President the damage to this country will be incalculable.
Either Barack is eligible to serve as POTUS, as detailed in Article II Section 1, or he isn’t. Sorry for the lousy metaphor; but to me its a lot like being pregnant . . . either you are or you aren’t. He is or he isn’t . . . nothing in between is allowed. “Kind of” eligible doesn’t cut it.
This is a country of laws, and you don’t get to pick and choose the laws you think apply to you or your particular situation and then behave accordingly.
If Obama wanted to end the speculation, he could. Really, if he meets the eligibility requirements, all he has to do is release the documents that verify his claim.
If you read what
Of particular note is her detailing John Jay’s letter to Washington during the time frame when Constitution was being drawn. Jay’s letter to Washington, said in part, “Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise . . . to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a “natural born citizen” (emphasis mine).
Understand what it says read it until you do
they grandfathered thier self in for only a short time admitting they themself had duall citizenships.
after that time they didn’t allow anyone with duall loyalties alowed to be pres or vp. they made that perfectly clear as to how they worded it.
If you were borb with a parent that was not a us citzenship you have duall loyalties plain and simple.
uphold the constitution
With all due respect, Hillary lost. Obama won. He ran a brilliant, well-organized campaign. Hillary is a wonderful person, and she’ll make a great SOS, but her Primary campaign was a disaster – full of infighting and many occasions of jumping off message, or changing the message. She miscalculated the importance of caucus states, even stating that “they don’t count.” But just as in the general election, EVERY state did indeed count. McCain miscalculated Obama’s determination to take the campaign to all 50 states, and his numbers prove it.
Our country is in desperate need of help right now. In fact, it’s in limbo because of the lamest lame duck we ever had, and a President-elect who has ideas and a potential team, but no authority yet. Do you honestly think this attempt at disrupting the election is going to help? Obama was born in Hawaii. Get over it, and move on. It’s time………
Unless my information is wrong, Hillary actually won the popular vote in the primary and Obamanuts hijacked the polling, so a legitimate poll of states and electors was not conducted!
As a registered and disgusted Republican, I would far rather see Hillary be the winner of Electoral College vote than Joe, the wookie, Biden. (apologies to the wookie for the insult)
I believe we can easily get an overwhelming majority of American citizens, both Republicans and Democrats, to agree that Hillary should take office. Then we need to start working on the “one party system of corruption” that is now evident throughout our political system. The lesser of evils is Hillary and the candidate most acceptable to the greatest number.
Case is scheduled before 9 Justices for conference on December 5, 2008. Emergency stay of Electoral College meeting on December 15 may be made granted at that time, and oral arguments to follow.
Judicial misconduct lawsuit against New Jersey Judge Sabatino has also been filed. Sabatino obstructed justice, he and members of his staff putting their careers on the line…joining the club of Koolaid Drinkers for Obama.
“Naturalized citizens” and “born citizens” are NOT eligible to hold office of POTUS.
Obama may or may not be a “born” citizen. But he certainly does not, never has, and never will hold “natural born citizenship” status.
Lawsuit to challenge OBAMA and MC CAIN candidacy was file October 23. Judicial misconduct has prevented it at each step from reaching the Supreme Court in a timely fashion. NO ONE GETS CREDIT FOR DONOFRIO LAWSUIT, other than God Himself in inspiring the man to act.
Jewish Lawyer, you completely miss the point of law.
Obama’s commonly known dual citizenship at birth barrs him or anyone else with this lower level of citizenship to be POTUS. Birth certificate or place of birth matters not in light of the greater issue.
Only individuals with 2 parents who are citizens at birth, and who are born on American soil, foreign military bases do not qualify, may take office of POTUS. period
2008 election fraud approaches monumental proportions. Also, Kenyan amabassador in a taped phone interview, says a shrine was created around Obama birthplace in Kenya, and National Obama holiday.
Listen to recording at http://my.wrif.com/mim/?cat=9
Last 2 minutes of interview have the astounding revelation.
Don’t you defenders of Obama find it despicable that he is putting the country throught this?
It is dishonorable. This is what should lead us? a man who lacks honor and dignity.
spin, spin spin….from the left, the right, the in between. You all think you got it down pat. You don’t. Obama does and he is not coming forward. WHY? that is what you have to ask yourself. The answer is right in front of you. He is HIDING this info. Plain and simple. He and he alone can stop the spins. Has he made an effort to do so? NO!!!!
Is he that smug tha he does not think we deserve to know…and he wants to lead us??????? just on that attitude alone…he needs to be chucked.
You leftist…you have been had. Plain and simple. Put forth OBAMAS PERSONAL CONVEYED evidence…that he is in fact eligible. You can’t because he is not. He is a fraud. If he is not then he should stand up like a man and defened himself and put down his accusers. He won’t do that because he cannot. Instead of defending him why don’t you leftist put him on Oprah again and have him explain his legitimacy to be POTUS.
Crazy on parade is always entertaining.
Mistake in above.
add in this
“He was born in Hawaii…” This is unknown.
“…to a U.S. Citizen.”
continue with this
That form of citizenship…
I also thought of the best refutation of the “dual citizenship” argument.
According to the “dual citzenship” argumnt, since BHO was a STATUTORY British Citizen at birth, then he can not be a Natural Born Citizen.
OK, if that is true, which it most certainly is not, then any country (say Country X) may simply pass a law that says all American Citizens are Citizens of Country X at birth and this law is retroactive.
No one can stop another country from passing this law. According, to the “dual citizenship” argument, this law would make all US Citizens INELIGIBLE as they would have dual citizenship at birth.
My favorite, reductio ad absurdum!!!!
QED.
Wish You Were Right. BUT YOU ARE NOT.
BHO, SHOW US THAT CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH.
“Obama is a natural born citizen. ”
How excactly do you know this?
“He was born in Hawaii to a U.S. Citizen.”
That form of citizenship is derived from a STATUTE (MAN MADE by CONgress). If being born to a US citizen meat that the baby was a Natural Born Citizen, then there would not be a need for such a STATUTE to exist.
“The birth certificate was released.” No it was NOT. A Certification of Live Birth was released (at best). Did you read that document? The document itself indicates its nature. It says that it is prima facie (“at frist blush”) evidence of the person’s birth. IT IS A RECEIPT FOR THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!!!!!!!
Get a clue. Get some FACTS. Take a course in logic.
Obama is a natural born citizen. He was born in Hawaii to a U.S. Citizen. The birth certificate was released. Hard facts just don’t seem to be good enough for people like you. The Democratic Party itself wouldn’t have allowed him to run if they questioned his citizenship. Why would they? It wouldn’t be good for the party.
He’s POTUS. Nothing’s going to change. I suggest you get over it. If you can’t, you may want to seek psychological treatment.
Oh, and the posts aren’t traumatic to me in the least. I find them exceptionally funny. It’s always a good time to see crazy on parade.
Project Openletter:
Why are Obamabots so utterly predictable?
Rather than asking me to STFU why don’t you ask yourself why you want to put the interests of one man ahead of our democracy and the Constitution?
Here’s an even better question, why won’t your boy just release all the pertinent documents? “We the people” are not entitled to see his school records, his health records, look at his college thesis? Hmmm? Every other candidate has had to provide this information. If McCain had refused to provide these documents you’d be screaming your head off.
This is not about Hillary. It never has been. BHO is either eligible according to the Framers of the Constitution or he isn’t.
If you find these posts so traumatic, might I suggest that you move on.
Once Obama makes Hillary Sec. of State, with that make all you fanatics STFU already?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I have to agree with the Jewish Lawyer. This is a classic case and controversy that arises under the Constituion and like Marbury v. Madison in 1803, WILL be heard by the Supreme Court in two cases. I guess our system of checks and balances is working to stop the coup de’tat that is occurring in our federal government.
I think all of the speculation about Obama would have been cut in half if he had just released his elementary, high school and college transcripts, original BC, passport records, shot records, etc. Every other candidate has – so why not Obama? Without verifiable life documents, it naturally leads to speculation of “what is he hiding?”. Did he ever recive a Pell Grant? Certainly with his “humble roots” he would have qualified. In order to receive federal or state aid, such as a Pell Grant, you must be a US citizen. Is that why he had student loans? Were they private or Federal student loans? Student aid & loan app’s, as well as college admission applications, ask if you are a US citizen, dual citizen,ever lived in other countries, etc. Is that why these docs haven’t been released by Obama? Couldn’t be because of grades… they couldn’t have been worse than John McCain’s and with low grades, he wouldn’t have been able to get into Harvard, right? Since he was an Indonesian citizen for awhile, where is the document renouncing his dual citizenship he would have had to sign before the age of 23? I was born in Germany in 1959, father in Air Force, both parents born in the USA, transferred back to the states in 1961. The govt sent me a form to sign when I turned 21 asking if I wanted to declare dual citizenship with both the US and Germany or just the USA. I chose just the USA. Barack would have had to do the same, since as a child he was a citizen of Indonesia.
Cane:
You are welcome here any time, even if we don’t see eye to eye. At least we talked to each other!
I did write about Berg and Martin, but it seems to me that they are all talk and little action. No follow-up posts for that reason.
The API stories always sounded “too good to be true” and you can add the newest stories of BHO’s forged/fake selective service records not written about by me.
I spent my arguments and time.
You’re right, of course. Go on, donate Donofrio, Berg, Martin and Korir (API), they will save real America.
Cane:
When I used the Fact Check reference it was with a sense of irony. After all, if Donofrio’s suit is ultimately successful it would be with the help of information posted on a pro Obama website.
Here’s another irony. Right now Donofrio’s petition in front of the Supreme Court rests with Justice Clarance Thomas. Wonder if BHO would like to take his comments about Thomas back . . . given the circumstances.
As to your question, “If the Framers of our Constitution wanted black man or any woman to be allowed to hold the office of POTUS that would have been addressed.”
Let me point out that we have to look at the interplay of the role of Congress with its naturalization powers. The issues of women and blacks have already been addressed unambiguously as our country has grown.
Some would argue that “the natural born citizen clause, by requiring citizenship from birth, prevents Congress from using its naturalization power ad hoc to qualify candidates it favors or disqualify those it does not [favor].”
BTW, apology accepted.
Sportsone234, I didn’t mean to attack you personally, yet I apologize. I’m here for fun, not out of anger. In a true spirit of democracy, I’d fight for your freedom of speech, even if I’d disagree with your opinion. See, I’m a nice guy, LOL
Now about the message:
_____________________
Sportsone234 wrote: “BTW, if your only “citation” is from Fact Check, it is hard for anyone to take you seriously.”
_____________________
I don’t want to be always taken seriously, but – in the name of intellectual consistency – you can’t deny me using the exactly same source to oppose your accusation as you (or Donofrio) did to construct it.
Besides, Donofrio’s bizarre interpretation of a terms “natural born citizen” is false – as “Wish you were right” articulated precisely.
And again, let me rephrase you, to point out a logical fallacy of your previous statement “THAT IS THE POINT! If the Framers of our Constitution wanted black man or any woman to be allowed to hold the office of POTUS that would have been addressed.”
Now, do you agree with your own, rephrased statement?
I certainly don’t.
I wish you were right, but…
Natural Born Citizen is a simple concept – born in the United States of America. Even if you disagree with that, then certainly there can be no disagreement that a Natural Born Citizen is a Citizen who was NOT NATURALIZED.
If you are an American Citizen,then you were either 1)Natural born or 2)naturalized. Naturalized means that some MAN-MADE STATUTE has conferred citizenship on you.
If Obama were truly born in Hawaii and he didn’t de facto or de jure renounce his US citizenship when he went to Indonesia, then your argument holds no water.
“NOT Natural Born” does not and can not be construed to mean Natural Born Citizen of The US AND NOT a STATUTORY Citizen of another country. Especially since this is not stated in the text.
The argument regarding the Framer’s is a logical fallacy. The Framer’s who were “grand-fathered” in were NOT Natural Born Citizens. If they were, then there would be no need for the “grand-fathering”. Therefore, they were ONLY foreign citizens who were Naturalized. Naturalized citizens can only be President if they were citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution.
You can argue intent and extrapolate that to mean dual citizenship, but you are stuck with a simple fact: If someone has dual citizenship then how did they obtain their US Citizenship? If they obtained their US citizenship by being born in the US and NOT FROM A MAN-MADE STATUTE, then that person is inconclusively a Natural Born Citizen.
Wish you were right.
axel01
Re: Your intellectual agony.
Did you read the entire post? See the reference to the 14th Amendment in the middle of the post? If you did, your statement is dumb or you didn’t read the post throughly and just shot from the lip.
BTW, if your only “citation” is from Fact Check, it is hard for anyone to take you seriously.
Also, I rarely “deep 6” comments. This is a place to honestly debate and hopefully think about topics. If you look at my blogroll you will find a diversity of thought and points of view.
I don’t agree or disagree with everything that is written by anyone and neither should you.
Take a step back, take a deep breathe, and consider being kinder to people whose opinions you disagree. Diversity of opinion and thought is a way to grow stronger as a country.
Those who question Obama’s eligibility are not your enemy.
One final thought . . . don’t attack the messenger if you want to be taken seriously. Attack the merits of the message. Personal attacks diminish you not the person whose opinions you find objectionable.
madmonq
This stopped being about Hillary a long time ago.
This fight, is/was Obama ever eligible to run as POTUS, is about about preserving our Constitution and honoring what the Framers intended. I would rather have spoken out and been proven wrong than to have remained quiet and have been right.
On a personal level, BHO seems to be a very likable fellow. I don’t dislike him, I dislike the way he has handled this. Let’s be real, if he’s not hiding something just release the paperwork. What is the big deal . . . unless.
In almost all likelihood this will not make Hillary president. No matter how much you want it.
To be fair sportsone234, I have to commend you at least for having enough intellectual integrity, not to delete every post you disagree with (as practiced on few other PUMA sites).
Sportsone234 wrote: “That is precisely the point! THAT IS THE POINT! If the Framers of our Constitution wanted a person with dual citizenship to be allowed to hold the office of POTUS dual citizenship would have been addressed.”
____________________
Please stop it, this is an intellectual agony: you don’t have a clue about legal issues. By your understanding, everything what is not explicitly allowed by law is forbidden?
“Framers” haven’t addressed that a black man or woman could be a POTUS, thus… hey step off Obama! Right?
Besides, return back to factcheck.com and read: “He held both U.S. and Kenyan citizenship as a child, but lost his Kenyan citizenship automatically on his 21st birthday”
Jesus, you live in a parallel universe.
Obama does not hold dual citizenship. Those arguing that he had to give up his US citizenship when he went to Indonesia are wrong. He was a child at the time, and only an adult can renounce citizenship. As such, his citizenship in Kenya and Indonesia expired when he passed the age of maturity in each country.
Donofrio’s platitudes are not ‘proof’ of anything. His narrative about what the founders intended is simply his opinion. It’s not law, not fact and therefore, not PROOF, as the title of this thread claims. Furthermore, his comparison of the founder’s state of citizenship to Obama’s does not hold. They are not the same situation at all.
sportsone234, your logic is flawed. You can’t claim that since the Constitution doesn’t specifically say someone born of duel citizenship is eligible to be POTUS, that it necessarily means that they are inelligible. That’s not how constitutional interpretation works. The fact is, ‘natural born citizen’ has not been defined to exclude someone born with duel citizenship. Sorry, but it hasn’t. The question is, how did Obama attain US Citizenship, by Birth or by Statute? If by Birth, then he’s a natural born citizen. If by Statute, he’s not. His documented and verified birth to a US Citizen in the State of Hawaii confers his citizenship by birth.
The fact that this case exists, does not necessarily mean it’s arguments have merit. So while there is a ‘reason’ this case is before the Supreme Court, it doesn’t prove anything.
I have never said that Article II Section 1 refers to dual citizenship, as surely a quick read clearly shows.
That is precisely the point! THAT IS THE POINT! If the Framers of our Constitution wanted a person with dual citizenship to be allowed to hold the office of POTUS dual citizenship would have been addressed. In fact, the Framers went out of their way to make sure that, in addition to themselves, only “natural born” citizens could hold this office.
In fact, the Framers were fearful of that, and went out of their way to prevent any person with dual/conflicting loyalties/citizenship from assuming the office. We were British colonies before we ultimately became the United States with a complicated past and heritage tied to England and King George. No kings, princes, no matter of royalty would be allowed to ascend to the presidency.
To those here posting and thinking in “soundbytes”, might I suggest you put your Cheetos down and pick up an American history book.
This is a complicated issue that involves a multitude of issues relating to Obama’s birth that include the age of his mother when BHO was born, the length of stay in various countries by her and BHO, in addition to the fact that his father was British at the time of his birth whether the birth took place in Kenya, or as is claimed, in Hawaii.
Better yet, do what I did yesterday. Download: The Natural Born-Citizen Clause-And Presidential Eligibility: An Approach to Resolving 200 Years of Uncertainty written by Jill A. Pryor, a brilliant Atlanta attorney, 20 years ago and published in the Yale Law Journal. Absent the changes in law in the past 20 years, this could easily have been written yesterday.
Of particular note is her detailing John Jay’s letter to Washington during the time frame when Constitution was being drawn. Jay’s letter to Washington, said in part, “Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise . . . to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a “natural born citizen” (emphasis mine).
Notice no mention of dual citizenship . . . because the Framers wanted some type of guarantee of allegiance to the United States!
Obama does not meet the requirements to be POTUS. Our Constitution is more important than any single individual. Obama is a transient figure in our history . . . as are all who serve in the office of POTUS.
There is a reason this is before the Supreme Court!
JewishLawyer, even if I doubt that you actually are a Jewish lawyer (they are to shrewd to discredit themselves the way you did), but you’re free to file the another lawsuit claiming Obama’s ineligibility. That can’t go wrong.
Let us have some fun.
sportsone234:
Note, Article 2, Section 1 of our Constitution does not allow for dual citizenship
***
This is the 2nd time I’ve done that. I was tired when I wrote this last night. I obviously meant Article II Section 1. If you look in the previous paragraphs it is correctly stated. I have since corrected it. Thanks.
Unfortunately, I do invert numbers and letters, on occasion. You know the old joke about how a dyslexic spells GOD? … dog!
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Oh dog, I’m so sorry for repeating myself, but neither Article II, Section 1 doesn’t speak about dual citizenship explicitly.
Nevertheless, does dyslexia also cause misunderstanding of a verb tense?
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html
As per factcheck.org: “Obama admits he was a British Citizen at birth…” – see, a past tense.
As per Article II, Section 1: “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible…” – see, a present simple tense.
Are we making some progress?
When accusing the president elect of ineligibility, you should be a tad more precise.
Funny to all that come here and try to pee on the parade but I will just tell you that the Supreme Court is allowing this to materialize by allowing 2 cases (so far) to proceed…..
I will remind these people that in the time of NoBama’s birth Hawaii allowed having the person to be registered a BC and that BC would also have noted where the person was born. Ive seen a copy of a BC that was issued in the 60s and it is NOTHING like the one he claims via his website (which has since disappeared)…. Now even if he WAS born in Honolulu … he was taken as a child to Indonesia and adopted by his step father. At this time he would’ve had to give up his any US citzenship because Indonesia didn’t recognize dual citizenship. He would have had to LEGALLY repatriate his US citizenship upon returning to the US as a teen….. if he didn’t do this (and I have a gut feeling he didnt) then he would even be here illegally at this point…. case filed in NC this past week is suing based on this fact alone….. Currently there are (I believe 12 suits and growing including the 2 involving Supreme Court motions)…. I think NoBama is just trying to coast and hope this goes away quietly…. even if he’s sworn in he’s not out of the woods but only adds to the fire… as if these cases prevail and prove their points…..he would have committed at least 3 additional crimes under US Statues by taking the oath of office knowing he wasnt eligible…..
A non-issue. He can have had this duel citizenship. Next.
Though it IS fun watching the Freepers wet themselves over this non-issue. THAT is the genius of it. Obama has let them run with this idiocy so it keeps em occupied. It’s like a cat with yarn. lol
Keep it going Freepers!
British citizenship is irrelevant to U.S. citizenship. If Obama was born on U.S. soil, he’s a natural-born citizen, and no other nation’s laws can alter that.
steadyjohn;
This is the 2nd time I’ve done that. I was tired when I wrote this last night. I obviously meant Article II Section 1. If you look in the previous paragraphs it is correctly stated. I have since corrected it. Thanks.
Unfortunately, I do invert numbers and letters, on occasion. You know the old joke about how a dyslexic spells GOD? … dog!
The relevant section is Art 2, Section 1 not Art 1, Sec 2. Did anyone here download the audio on Donofrio’s site. I see the download limit there has been reached. I would like to hear it.
Article 1, Section 2 of US Constitution does not speak about dual citizenship at all.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html
What’s wrong with you?
This is for REAL. The election is NOT OVER. IF Obama is ineligible because he is not a natural born U.S. citizen then the Supreme Court could decide who will be President OR the Electoral College could reject Obama as a growing list of potential electors are joining a lawsuit demanding proof of birth. Instead of talking let’s do something.
Take action here: http://peoplespassions.org/index.html
It’s EASY. Just click and send emails to Reps. then send letters/emails to Electors asking them to defend the U.S. Constitution and demand Obama provide birth certificate or step down from Presidency. Every email and letter counts! Please help.
Write To U.S. Supreme Court Justices Regarding Obama Birth Certificate here: http://libertynjustice.wordpress.com/
obama is the president – elect get over it
Unavoidable scenario: If SCOTUS disqualifies Obama BEFORE 1/20/09 inauguration, McCain is POTUS per remaining electoral college electors; if SCOTUS disqualifies Obama after 1/20/09 inauguration, Hillary likely becomes POTUS per vote of Dem controlled House of Rep. Either way, is clear Obama will NOT be or remain POTUS.