Two days ago, I issued a challenge to the Obamabots. Prove that those of us who are fighting so hard to get Obama to release the vault copy of his birth certificate which would prove he is eligible to run as POTUS, are wrong.
Even on the surface of this challenge, one would think that the Kool-Aid kids would want to silence the criticism with the truth once and for all. The truth being, that Obama needs to release the vault copy of his birth certificate, his health records, his college transcripts, college thesis, and all relevant documents pertaining to his background. It isn’t as if this is new hurdle for Obama to jump or that he has somehow been singled out. THIS IS BASIC!
Not surprisingly, all I received were predictable responses from the Obamabots . . . every one diverting attention from the central issue. Think about how outrageous it is that American citizens have been forced to file suit in order to get Obama and the DNC to provide verification that he is indeed a citizen of the U.S. How tough is this… really!
So today, here is the new challenge. Using logic, defend Obama’s refusal to provide America and its citizens with this information. To start you off, please refer to the post originally found in the comments section over at America’s Right. It is written by Dr. Coambs who studies human reasoning and logic. Read the entire article . . . I will know if you cheated and only skimmed it.
Dr. Coambs challenges all of us to use deductive reasoning or syllogism to determine Obama’s eligibility to be POTUS. The complete post can also be found here at News & Commentary for Thinking People.
He says, in part, that Obama is disqualified as POTUS bt virtue of the following deductive reasoning:
Major Premise: To be POTUS, the candidate’s eligibility must be publicly known.
Minor Premise: Obama’s eligibility is not publicly known.
Conclusion: Therefore Obama is not POTUS.(6) How Categorical Syllogisms work
When we learn logic in school the categorical syllogism is often taught like this. It begins with a Major Premise, like this:
All humans are mortal.
Then one introduces a second, or Minor Premise, like this:
Socrates is human.
Then we combine the major and minor premises to get this Conclusion:
Therefore, Socrates is mortal.This method of deductive logic is more than 2000 years old and is taught in almost every introductory logic course in the world. According to these rules of deductive logic, as described by Aristotle (Prior Analytics, 24b18–20) if both premises are true, then the conclusion is true.
Logic is a branch of mathematics, and these rules are like those of arithmetic, where 2+2=4. The result is not negotiable. It is not subject to debate. These rules are universal, they apply everywhere in the known universe. At any time or place one can imagine, 2+2 will equal 4.
Just like arithmetic, the rules of deductive logic are not time-dependent and can be articulated at any time and place in the Universe. If we were to stand on the surface of Mars, then 2+2 would equal 4, and the syllogism above would also be true. If we were traveling at nearly the speed of light, these rules would be true. If all humans disappeared from existence, and only one computer remained, then it could calculate that 2+2=4, and it would be correct. If the computer disappeared, and there were no sentient beings left, and no computational devices, then still, 2+2=4. The syllogism would also be true. These rules are not the inventions of man, they are the rules of nature, and of the Universe.
The simple rules of arithmetic and deductive logic transcend space, time, matter, and energy. There is no point in trying to refute a categorical syllogism in which both premises are true. The conclusion must be true.
The conclusion of this syllogism is self-evident, because it merely requires the combination of two correct premises to produce a correct conclusion.
Here’s my syllogism, however inelegantly drawn:
Major Premise: All candidates for POTUS must be able to prove that they are eligible to run for this office and meet the requirements, as spelled out in Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution. These requirements include conclusive proof of having been born a natural citizen of the United States.
Minor Premise: Mr. Obama has steadfastly refused to provide documents that prove he meets citizenship requirements.
Conclusion: Mr. Obama cannot prove he is a natural born citizen and that is why he has not produced these documents, and further, he is therefore ineligible to serve as POTUS.
Note to the Obamabots. I look forward to your comments, but do not send me the usual drivel.
This post is for thoughtful responses ONLY. I will toss out comments that show a lack of intelligence or insight . . . i.e. “ha, ha he won OR adjust the tin foil on your head’ GO IMMEDIATELY TO THE CYBERSPACE DUMPSTER!
The key issues are not limited to legal citizenship and legal presidency. For details see “Obama Popcorn Movie; Now Playing in Jerusalem”; published FREE on line on July 29, 2009 by Photon03 on SCRIBD.
Obama was called ” Racist”in a rally in Jerusalem [A7News, July 28, 2009].
[…] 16, 2009 · No Comments OBAMABOT CHALLENGE #2 – USING LOGIC DEFEND OBAMA’S REFUSAL TO PRODUCE RELEVANT DOCUMENTS PROVING H… Pssst! BARACK THE SUPREME COURT IS LISTENING!!! UPDATE – DONOFRIO […]
actually, here’s a link to a site that has the COLB posted in the 2427×2369 resolution i mentioned, so you can see for yourself and make your own conclusions.
http://static.scribd.com/profiles/images/6w9bcgdtwpvvp-full.jpg
By the way, the Supreme Court is deciding today if it will hear the Donofrio lawsuit. Why does EVERY liberal nutjob and every liberal media outlet refuse to acknowledge that the Donofrio case also asserts that for the very same reasons presented against Obama, John McCain and Roger Colera are also ineligible to be POTUS.
Maybe its just me, but it seems like challenging BOTH McCain’s and Obama’s eligibility, in the came case, for the same reason, is in direct conflict with arguing that the motivation for this suit is a “sorry loser/win at all costs/racist/cheater” rationale, and I believe it to be intentionally deceptive to portray the case as such and as a sole attack on Obama alone.
while i do not give credit to most of the exaggerated conspiracy theories about Obama’s citizenship, there is one issue I observed that has never been explained. On the COLB his father’s race is listed as “African.” If Obama supporters were so keen to pounce on Sarah Palin when they thought she had mistakenly called Africa a country rather than a continent, shouldn’t it be clear that something is wrong here?
I am a Texan. I am an American. My ethnic heritage descends from Ireland, England, and Germany. My race(ethnicity) is “White-Caucasian”. Under NO circumstances or by ANY definition, would my race EVER be “North American.” And the conspirators are in fact correct in stating that at the time of Obama Jr.’s birth, his father’s race would have been listed as “Negro.”
Also, after examining a high resolution image (2427×2369) of the posted COLB, you can CLEARLY see that the blurry spot in the center of the document is NOT a shadow of the required raised seal, but is a time stamp bleeding through from the reverse side of the document. the date? Jun. 6 2007
This does not debunk the validity of the posted COLB. What it does is prove that this is online copy that was requested in June of last year. There is 0.00% chance that this is the ORIGINAL document. (I have the high-res image and would be glad to send it to anyone who wants to see it.)
It also strikes me as EXTREMELY odd that after Obama returned to Hawaii to see his grandmother before she passed, the Governor of Hawaii decided to seal all of Obama’s records from ANYONE, the public or otherwise. His visit with his grandmother is not relevant to the issue. The issue is WHY DID THE GOV. DO THAT?
This whole dark episode in American history will become a bigger problem as time goes on. I imagine in 5, 10 or 20yrs time when we look back the Obamabots will wonder what happened and why they were all brainwashed to over look this obvious faux pas.
Time has run out, the fight can’t be in the court room of the SCOTUS as they simply will not rule on this, as they too have been paid off to destroy the Constitution. Quite simply someone must get the copy of the certificate and blow it out of the water,
The future is bleak, I am just sitting back and measuring just how severely effected the public are, the combination of a diet of Coke, Big Macs, Britney Spears, Oprah, CNN and Political Correctness (which is a communist invention). This did not just happen overnight, it has been in planning for around 30yrs.
ps: Why was Leo’s blog hacked? He put up a new one at http://thenaturalborncitizen.blogspot.com/
ALSO this blog was hacked taken off line? see CACHED here
http://tinyurl.com/5veusf
HONOLULU — The state’s Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.
(clip)
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said.
_____________
Fukino states only that the birth certificate is on file — she does not reveal its contents, i.e., Obama’s birthplace. I am sure that to divulge the contents of the birth certificate would be a violation of law. We really cannot infer anything from her statement, other than that a document regarding Obama’s birth is on file with the Dept. of Health in Hawaii.
Conclusion: Mr. Obama cannot prove he is a natural born citizen and that is why he has not produced these documents, and further, he is therefore ineligible to serve as POTUS.
Conclusion: Mr. Obama cannot prove he is a natural born citizen … that is why
That is not a logical conclusion.
he has not produced these documents, …
he is therefore ineligible to serve as POTUS.
That’s logical. Avoid syllogistical overkill.
Regards,
FF
I think all of the speculation about Obama would have been cut in half if he had just released his elementary, high school and college transcripts, original BC, passport records, shot records, etc. Every other candidate has – so why not Obama? Without verifiable life documents, it naturally leads to speculation of “what is he hiding?”. Did he ever recive a Pell Grant? Certainly with his “humble roots” he would have qualified. In order to receive federal or state aid, such as a Pell Grant, you must be a US citizen. Is that why he had student loans? Were they private or Federal student loans? Student aid & loan app’s, as well as college admission applications, ask if you are a US citizen, dual citizen,ever lived in other countries, etc. Is that why these docs haven’t been released by Obama? Couldn’t be because of grades… they couldn’t have been worse than John McCain’s and with low grades, he wouldn’t have been able to get into Harvard, right? Since he was an Indonesian citizen for awhile, where is the form he would have had to sign before the age of 23 renouncing his dual citizenship? I was born in Germany in 1959, father in Air Force, both parents born in the USA, transferred back to the states in 1961. The govt sent me a form to sign when I turned 21 asking if I wanted to declare dual citizenship with both the US and Germany or just the USA. I chose just the USA. If I had chosen dual, I would not be eligible to be POTUS! Barack would have had to do the same, since as a child he was a citizen of Indonesia. If he never renounced his dual citizenship by signing this form, he is not eligible to be POTUS.
StrangeAppar8us, I noticed that, but soon after few Obots emerged again on that awesome blog and spoiled the idyll.
OMG, those evil Obots are ruining a real-American dream! Donate to Berg and Donofrio, they’re our only hope!!!!
Hahahahhaha, OMG, hahahahahaha!
I mean… hell yeah, let’s defend real American values by donating to our saviours, Berg, Martin and Donofrio!!!
Developing: ….Fukino and Onaka tied to Ayers/Obama love triangle! Clearly they are covering for their Communist lover. This also proves that Japan is involved, due to Onaka’s heritage. It’s all coming together. Japan and Germany were allies during WW2. Sportsone234 has proven beyond doubt that Obama likes Nazis since his family wore red & black. Ayers is 54% Italian. Ring a bell? Under Obama we will see the re-emergence of the Axis Powers, only with the US military at the helm, making it virtually unstoppable! It’s just a matter of time until we are plunged into darkness, unless Berg or Donofrio can save us! Please donate today.
…Hey, I didn’t ask for this. It just fell onto my lap and I’m just connecting the dots!
This is how all BS conspiracy theories work:
You assume a fundamental premise(s)/framework and then seek out “evidence” that supports it. And then present it as a “trail” pointing to the supposition.
That is not logic. It’s not scientific and it flies in the face of the fundamental ethic of journalism.
Any sentiment that disagrees with sportsone234 = drivel. That’s the fundamental premise of this “blog.”
Even Donofrio himself acknowledges that Obama has no legal obligation to release his “vault” certificate. I wonder if sportsone234 even read his motion and briefs. Probably not. Too hard on the brain.
Ted: WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE????? Does anybody even know what evidence is anymore? Or better yet, how to evaluate it?
Ockham’s Razor: LOOK IT UP. Review the EVIDENCE as it is. Use your brain.
Any of you “release-the-vault-certificate” jokers want to place some bets on the outcome of Berg vs. Obama? Anyone? I could use some cash.
Cane: Don’t you know that the State of Hawaii is in on the cover up? Duh! Any dullard can see that! Along with the DNC, the State Department, FBI, the satanic MSM, and many many more! It’s a huge conspiracy and only 25 Bloggers know the truth. All you have to do is ask irrelevant questions based on unfounded accusations, and when nobody listens you scream COVERUP! It’s that simple. That’s how you save the constitution, democracy and the American way of life. YES! Astonishing leaps in logic be damned! Assumptive false premises rule the day here my friends!!
Sportsone234: You are an idiot. I’m done being polite with you. Look at your blog. It’s moronic. Hillary Clinton would be ashamed to have you as a supporter. I can’t wait to see her in the Obama administration. I hope you find that humiliating!
Go ahead and delete this. Ban me, whatever. You are a tool.
Ted, I just can’t get over your statement. On what ground could Hawaiian state’s Department of Health verify the legitimacy of a Kenyan birth certificate? You must be joking, right?
Gosh, you must have a serious problem with comprehending or facing the reality.
_____________
Sportsone234 wrote: “Prove that those of us who are fighting so hard to get Obama to release the vault copy of his birth certificate which would prove he is eligible to run as POTUS, are wrong.”
_____________
Sportsone234, can you define a legal provision that requires from presidential candidate to “release” the vault copy of any officially acknowledged and verified document? Besides, what does it means to “release” it: to send an original, irreplaceable document to any Yucko the Clown that demands it?
What do you know about Berg or Donofrio? Go on, express you trust by donating them. That can’t go wrong.
Ted, can’t you read?
yes, Hawaii has the birth certificate BUT IT IS NOT A HAWAIIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!! (IT WAS FROM ELSEWHERE — E.G. KENYA — FILED IN HAWAII)
Sportsone234, your Minor Premise that “Obama’s eligibility is not publicly known” is false.
__________________
HONOLULU — The state’s Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.
(clip)
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said.
__________________
http://www.wmtw.com/politics/17866059/detail.html
From that point on all yours “deductive reasoning” makes no sense.
Case closed.
Of course you are allowed to doubt in integrity of the Hawaii Department of Health, but in this case you might have to file a law suit against that institution. FYI, in this case I’d advice to provide a proof confirming your claim, since the ordinary rule is that “the necessity of proof lies with he who complains.”
Demanding from the accused one to prove his innocence is a medieval witch-hunt practice
Neither Dr. Coambs’ nor the blogger’s own syllogisms are defensible, since both are based on the ineligible premise that Obama has failed to supply the required proof of citizenship. Those premises are nonsense in that the terms “proof” and “required” have not been defined prior to making the argument.
Both of the deleted posts supplied proposed syllogisms that were at least as well constructed as the blogger’s, and superior in the sense that they at least identified some parameters for what constitutes “proof.”
In any event, this whole exercise is a silly attempt to establish some sort of purely academic materiality — using a strictly Wikipedia-level grasp of categorical frameworks — for arguments that will ultimately be decided on their legalistic merits, rather than brilliant Sherlockian induction, however superficially compelling it may seem to the average Watsonian dullard.
Just try fighting your next parking violation using categorical syllogisms. “So you see, Your Honor, all men are NOT Socrates. Ipso facto, QED. Since this parking ticket has no independent existence outside of my physical senses, it is a phantom construct, and is thus unenforceable.”
In short, until Phil Berg gets a grip on little things like “evidence,” “documentation,” “testimony” and “precedent,” this little blog distraction is pretty much the autoerotic equivalent of sudoku.
Unavoidable scenario: If SCOTUS disqualifies Obama BEFORE 1/20/09 inauguration, McCain is POTUS per remaining electoral college electors; if SCOTUS disqualifies Obama after 1/20/09 inauguration, Hillary likely becomes POTUS per vote of Dem controlled House of Rep. Either way, is clear Obama will NOT be or remain POTUS.
Cane:
You wrote drivel and I’m good to my word.
I haven’t completely deleted your comment. If you want to try again, (but this time some thought behind your comments) I’ll let the other comment back so readers can judge for themselves.
BTW, the exercise has nothing to do with “my logic” but with applying “Categorical Syllogisms” to Obama and his inability to produce documents that prove he is a natural born citizen.
Might I suggest that you read the entire post, before shooting from the lip!
WOW, how very bold, moderate and non-manipulative from you, to challenge those disagreeing with you and then delete all challenging comments, instead of refuting them with your famous logic.
CHECK OUT O’S SELECTIVE SERVICE REGISTRATION (FAKE)
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/11/exclusive_did_n.html